Interview with Neil Gorman: Print

Neil has been working in print for decades and works with a variety of printers to get the right solution for clients. His business is Piggy Print in Broxburn, West Lothian.

Neil’s links:

Piggy Print
LinkedIn

 

Transcript

Samantha Tonge: Hi, it’s Samantha Tonge from Labrakita again. I am here with Neil Gorman, doing another one of my interviews with people who are specialists, either within marketing or related to marketing somehow. And Neil is... well, you've got quite a few businesses, haven't you? But we're talking about Piggy Print today. So can you talk a little bit about how you started or how you got into printing? And yeah, a bit about Piggy Print, please.

Neil Gorman: Okey-doke. So, hello, everyone. Neil Gorman. How did I get into printing? Well, I had 17 years before I got into signage and printing, and the semiconductor industry. I was in manufacturing in West Lothian, and we were privileged back then to be classed as Silicon Glen. Jobs were plentiful, and opportunities were abundant, but sadly, that industry took a hammering. And when I got made redundant for some time, I decided it was time for a change. So after I was made redundant, I went along to a jobs' fair, because apparently that's just what you had to do. It was the first time I'd been unemployed. I went along, sifted through some CVs and came across a job for a production manager in the same company. So I decided, well, I'm here now I might as well throw my hat in the ring, and I've put my name forward. The managing director phoned me the same day and asked me to pop in. I popped down and we've got on really, really well and he offered me the job there and then. It became apparent that it was more an operations manager they needed, rather than a production manager. And that was me consumed in the signage industry to start with.

So, for anybody that doesn't know, it's a very infectious business, it consumes your life. You drive along and point at signs and pick faults. So it's quite sad, really, but... So I've gone into that, and during that role, we went to a sign fair, one of these business expo-type things. And we were just watching a demonstration for a white format printer, which we didn't have at the time. And I was just completely blown away with its capabilities. I took it back to the owner of the company, because the managing director has left, because he fell out with the owner. And yeah, so I proposed that we should get one because we were subcontracting, that worked out at the time, it wasn't about the financial commitment. And I just thought, you know, I could do this, I could do this myself. So I've decided to release a bit of equity in my house and started my own business.

My first business was actually called Rise and Sign. You probably pick up on my cheesy, cheesy company name. So Rise and Sign was what I first started out as. It was very, very tough. Very tough stuff. Anybody will know starting their own business that the first two years are really difficult. If you can imagine all the hassles you get with collecting payments, and if someone doesn't pay you, you know, it's so so tough and I really had to dig in.

So just to touch on briefly, as Sam says, I've got a few business interests. During that time I took on different roles and other income streams. And that's how I got into properties at a stage. But Piggy Print was born out of Rise and Sign, and that's been going now for over 10 years. My specialist area was white format printing, which means banners, signage, vehicle graphics, things like that. But I quickly realised that clients would contact me initially maybe about a banner or a sign, but then they would ask me: Do you do business cards? Do you do flyers? Do you do embroidered polo shirts? So I started to think, well, rather than say no, I'm just going to say yes to everything. And I'm going to find associate printers to work with. And so over the years, I've established a network of associates or suppliers, who enable me to do everything from top to bottom, whether it's a business card to building a site, even if I'm not physically doing it myself, I'll find somebody that can, and work with them. So that kind of pulled me into printing management and that's where I am now. I actually got rid of most of my equipment, and now just print manage and just use associates and suppliers.

Samantha: So anything related to printing, someone will come to you and you can organise anything, pretty much?

Neil: Yes, pretty much. Anything, I mean anything brand-related at all. Even if it's just advice, you know, sometimes it's easier for me to just pass them on to one of my associates and for me not to be involved. But I'd rather if somebody comes to me with a request, I can at least point them in the right direction rather than saying, sorry, I don't do that. Unless I get ten phone calls a week, from people saying: Can I get an A4 print out, please? It just baffles me that some people have not even got a printer in the house. But I'll try and help anybody even with small jobs like that. I do have suppliers or associates that are happy to do those small jobs. And I'll always pass them on. So that's just keeping the connections, feeding the work out to whoever I can, as locally as I can, as well.

Samantha: I'm sure a lot of people here watching will be... if they're not in marketing, they have to do their own marketing. What should people think about or what questions should they ask to know that the print manager they are speaking to is someone that they can trust and knows what he or she is talking about?

Neil: I think a lot of the time, people will come just with a very straightforward idea. ‘I'm looking for business cards. Can you do them, please? And how much are they going to cost?’, you know. It's about guiding them to get me more information. The more information they can get me, the better looking their end-product is going to be. It's about making them understand that dependent on the type of business they are running, requirements might vary. For example, no disrespect to a window cleaner, but he might just want mass quantities of low-quality cards, because he's buying them for letter boxes. But if an architect or an accountant is speaking to me, I would suggest to do something a bit more professional-looking, a bit more eye-catching, memorable. And there are so many different types of business cards that I could bore you all to death with for about an hour. Even in this current climate that we have, there’s antibacterial-finished cards, so it's a completely evolving industry. There's different lamination types, there's different shapes, sizes, things like that. We try and keep it as uncomplicated as possible, otherwise, you know, people will just run away. I think the key thing is... I often get… well, not often, but I mean... it's common for people to say: ‘Well, I could get that in Vistaprint for this price.’, and I'm like: ‘Well, you know, if it's Vistaprint that you are looking for then that's absolutely fine. But just remember, you don't have anybody to come back to. You don't have anybody to communicate with.’ That's the critical part of print management, guiding the customer from start to finish.

Samantha: Yeah, and I think you kind of touched on it there. I think that even stock that you print on, and the finish is actually an expression of the brand. So, if you want to communicate quality, you want good quality business cards. Vistaprint is... I mean, they're alright. When I first started out, I've got my first batch of 200, or whatever it was from Vistaprint, or some equivalent as well. Which is all well and good, but yeah, once I've got my nice, really nice business cards, there was no comparing them. It makes a difference. It really does.

Neil: Yeah. I think sometimes people have a logo, but often the back of your business card is an opportunity to do something eye-catching, you know. It doesn't just need to be a very clinical-looking card. I like a card that's got a Spot UV finish, because it stands out a little bit, and it's just got something a bit eye-catching, you know, and people may hold on to them a little bit easier. Sometimes you get a bit thicker cards as well, which is a good thing, because if people are sticking them into their wallet or whatever, those just stick out. Because you can get cards that have got coloured centres, which look a little bit like a sandwich. There are so many different things, you know. I know some people who dabbled with metal cards, things like that. But that's quite extreme. And obviously we're living in a world now where there are digital business cards, and I know that that's a growing business, and buyers might be pushing that. On the print side though, I think there's always synergies between both.

Samantha: Definitely. And for anyone who's viewing this at a different time, just to explain, we are in the middle of a pandemic at the moment. So everything is kind of digital, but we will be back face-to-face. I find, and I'm sure I'm not alone with this, if I have something tangible in my hand that someone's given me, I remember them a lot better. I know where I met them, I know the conversation that we had. I feel, I find it a lot easier to get home and stick that into my CRM. So it helps people to remember you and what you were about, I think.

Neil: Yeah.

Samantha: And I guess the same is true, when you think about what you should print on, or how it should look. Even when it comes to other types of printing, whether that's clothing, and I guess you do printed badges, and obviously you do banners, etc. And banners are for example something, that I really hope we'll be using again very soon.

Neil: Again, as a sector that's grown arms and legs over the years. You get eco banners, once I've got one with bamboo effect, you've got double sided ones. I went through a phase, in the middle of last year, where I was supplying so many clear banners that were just used for separation in restaurants. So it was literally a full up banner but it was just a clear screen, and it was just used for segregating tables. So the whole COVID Safety Awareness thing opened a whole new market, you know, and as much as that... I wish to God had never been here, my business actually thrived. I was doing so many floor stickers for social distancing and things like that. So it was just chaos, but like anything, the market just got saturated with suppliers, you know. And then there was the uncertainty: Was it one meter, was it two meters? So you have to be very careful that you don't dive in too much and overstock on these items. But yeah, there's pull-up banners with so many different finishes. Again, you know, you can make these things really eye-catching. I like something that when you look at, you almost do a double take, something that really catches your eye. I'm not a graphic designer, but when I do some design, as I can do the design and the layout to a degree, I always try to go for something a bit quirky in items, but it also depends on what the business is, of course.

Samantha: I guess this is the difference between going to a printer and going to a print manager. You can advise on all the different options that are out there from multiple suppliers, right?

Neil: Absolutely. Yes. And you know, I spoke about Vistaprint. And obviously, it's not just Vistaprint there are so many online suppliers now. And that's just the way of the world and we can't complain about that. I use some myself for certain things. So I don't ever claim to be the cheapest or don't ever claim to try and compete with them. But I'm also just by myself, you know, I'm a small operation. My overheads are non-existent, especially now that I have to work from home. So we're trying to remain competitive. But if I was to give one bit of advice to anybody, who is in a busy sector, or starting out: ‘Don't make a fight to the bottom for price, because you just become a busy fool’. I used to tell myself: ‘Oh I'll buy some work, just to get the job’. And it's not worth it.

Samantha: Yeah.

Neil: I paid £300 for my first set of business cards, which included the designing of them as well. I used a graphic design house to do it, and I was charged £300 for 500 business cards from a designer and supplier. And I paid it because I've just started, I was so enthusiastic starting my own business, and I just thought that was the going rate. So I wouldn't advise doing that again, but don't always go for the cheapest, because it ain't always the best. And you very rarely have a comeback.

Samantha: Yeah, and I think the same goes for marketing communications, it really does make a difference. So at the moment, we're locked down, and I think a lot of people have been focusing purely on digital. But I found, people are getting more traction with the things that they send out in the post, as long as they have the right postal address and things are being forwarded on correctly. So I'm guessing there's a wide variety of things that you can get branded to send to people, to encourage clients to come back to you, and to get them to remember you.

Neil: Yeah, I mean, if you buy things in large enough bulk, you know, if you can afford them. Then the obvious things are: keyrings, pens, things like that. Then there are mugs, they are always a great thing but they're a bit more expensive, you know. However, if you're doing customer visits, then things like mugs are great for the small amount of appointments over the month that you are doing. If you're doing a scattergun approach, then pens, keyrings things like that are great. Anything with your brand on it, and a website, or contact numbers, but specifically a website. I went many years without a website or had a cobbled website that I put together myself and I'm staggered that I just fumbled my way through it. I think it was partly because sometimes when you work by yourself, there's only so much work you can take on. But having a really poor-looking website just didn't represent me as a company at all. So thankfully, working with Cal at Carbon Design, he put together a fantastic website for me and the traction I've gained from that is just mind-blowing. You know, I would maybe get twenty calls a month, and then after the website relaunch, I probably got twenty calls a week, at least. Not so much just now because things are obviously a bit quieter. But yeah, so leave behind things like that. In terms of postal marketing, another thing that kind of spun out of Piggy Print was, that I often did flyers for companies. We would usually get asked how much it is for a thousand flyers, and you would give them a price. And then you would say: ‘in actual fact, just because of how the print processes work, it is almost as cheap to get five thousand flyers’.

Samantha: Yeah.

Neil: And most people would get five thousand flyers for the extra £25 or whatever it was that it cost. But nine times out of ten probably it all sat in the boot of their car, or eventually ended up in the bin. That was just a waste of money. So I put together a booklet of clients locally, first and foremost, from Broxburn and Uphall, but it has started to expand now. And rather than them paying for a flyer that was just going to sit and they had to get out to customers or wherever, I'd say to people: ‘Let's pool all these clients together and put them in a booklet’. And there's lots of booklets out there advertising, because this is just a very straightforward thing. The booklet is almost like fifteen A5, double-sided flyers stapled together. It is just a big, bold advert all put together which is then put on doorsteps. So the client was paying for a full-page advert in a booklet at the same price that would have cost them to get their flyers printed, but they were also landing on doorsteps. So it was pooling everybody together in one publication. I'll always maintain and I don't know if people agree with this, but when you bend down and pick up the flyers at your doorstep, you tend to go and look at the front and the back. If it doesn't instantly connect with you, that goes in the bin. But when you pick up a booklet you'll thumb the pages, and then you'll put it away on a rack or something, saying ‘it's OK, I'll have a look at that later’. Or often you look at the back one or something, and if there's even just one advert in that booklet that catches your eye, you'll hold on to it. And that's to the benefit of all the other advertisers because you just don't know. We used to have a little strap line to say: ‘Read me, keep me, later you might just need me.’, and it was just ideas like that. Because, as you probably know, Sam, I'm not a marketer. But you just get these little ideas about things that work better, and you just share them with your clients. And just say: ‘Well, rather than paying £99 for five thousand flyers that you then have to distribute, why not pay £120/£130 for an advert that you know is going to land on five thousand doorsteps instead. So that's become very, very popular. And the way we've done it:  we're focused in small localised areas, so that it's local businesses, targeting local people.

Samantha: Right, so you've been innovating.

Neil: True. Well, I mean it's been going for many years, but the problem is, I just don't have the time. Although, just prior to lockdown, I've started pooling together a team of sales agents who were going around and this is where it's grown arms and legs now. So we're now in Glenrothes and Kirkcaldy, then we've got a guy in Manchester. And it doesn't matter about the area, as we just need the clients and then we make up a booklet and then we just engage with our local distributor and they just deliver. The publication is called "Live Local, Buy Local" and the key message is to help support local businesses.

Samantha: Yeah.

Neil: Especially, because I think now more than ever, all our businesses need to work together as much as we can.

Samantha: Yeah, totally agree. And it's been great, the fact that… I mean lockdown has been horrid, but it's been great to see just how many businesses are really willing to help each other out.

Neil: Yeah.

Samantha: Brilliant. But yeah, I guess that shows the thing I always try to remind people: ‘Don't just think digital’. It's really important to think about that, because, yes, email is cheap, and it can be effective. I'm certainly not saying don't do it at all, but don't discount physical mail, because it's so nice to actually get something in the post.

Neil: Yeah, yeah, I think you need to integrate them all together, make sure that they all kind of bounce off each other. But for me, the best marketing is face-to-face all day long anyway, you know. And I miss that so much in terms of our networking group. The online stuff's been great, but I'm looking forward to stale rolls and rubbish coffee and just some face-to-face chat.

Samantha: Same. Oh my word, I'm itching to get out. I don't know when it will be. But I am absolutely itching to get there as soon as we've all had the jab.

Neil: Yeah. Well, exactly. I think Colin said in a meeting on Friday that he's maybe thinking next year before networking groups get together. But hopefully the Business IQ West Lothian, being a smaller organisation, could manage that a bit better and do it sooner.

Samantha: We can be a bit nimbler than they...

Neil: That was a shameless plug there.

Samantha: Yeah. Shameless plug for Business IQ West Lothian, guys, great networking group. And yes, I think networking groups, smaller ones can be a little bit nimbler. As soon as we're allowed, we can organise it for the next week, as opposed to the big ones. And this is yet another reason to think about your physical print, and making sure that you have your business cards ready. When we're ready to go, you do have your banners, etc., and think about some of the smaller trade shows that will probably start up again.

Neil: Fingers crossed.

Samantha: Well. So are there any other things that you think people should think about when it comes to print?

Neil: No, I think we've covered most things. I think for sure: Don't be scared to pick up the phone to me, to any small print company that isn't a Tradeprint or a Vistaprint or whatever. Speak to them and ask for some advice. Even if you think you've got the perfect business card already, or you've got the best ideas, you better remember that we're doing this day in, day out, so we can advise and certainly help, you know. And even if it's a case of just looking for some layout support, and you're wanting to go and get it online that's fine. Sometimes specialist, small businesses that are just starting up, for them, prices are absolutely critical. But just don't cheapen your brand by going cheap.

Samantha: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, brilliant. Thank you so much for that, Neil.

Neil: No problem.

Samantha: It's food for thought, certainly. I think so many people think it's just digital now, but print is so important.

Neil: Yeah.

Samantha: And yeah, I absolutely agree, you need to think about your brand. If you're trying to say that you're the best quality, if you're not the cheapest, you probably don't want the cheapest business cards, etc.

Neil: Definitely not.

Samantha: Definitely not. Brilliant. So thank you very much. And yeah, doing a series of these, guys. So have a look out for the ones that are up there on my website and on my YouTube already. I'm putting them out on social media as well. Yeah, lots of good advice out there. So brilliant. Thanks very much, Neil.

Neil: Take care, everyone.

If you need any help with your marketing, call me on 07791 521439 or email me at samantha@labrakita.co.uk

If you need help with print contact Neil on 07867913186 or email him at neil@piggy-print.co.uk

Interviewer: Samantha Tonge, Marketing Consultant, Labrakita Marketing